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Thursday, August 24, 2017

Detective Comics #168 Values

Warner Bros. recent confirmation of a Joker origin movie has the internet in a rage. Some fans have taken to the world wide web to either voice their concerns for or against such a notion.

Some have even claimed that the Joker "should not have an origin", but the truth is that the Joker does somewhat have an origin story. Yes, there's never been a definitive or conclusive origin story established for the most iconic comic book villain of all time.

Also, the Joker is definitely unreliable at best, and there's no telling if he truly even remembers who he was before or even how he became Batman's nemesis.  With that said, this story is still so classic that it has been used by later writers to further add to the credibility or to the confusion of the Joker and his origins.

Now, I'm not saying whether this story or an entirely fresh and made up origin for the Clown Prince of Crime should be or shouldn't be told on the big screen, but this issue is not just one of the more important Batman key issues but it is an important Joker key issue also.

Maybe even one of the best Golden Age key comics to have as a comic investment over the most recent years. We shall put that to the test soon enough.

Those from my generation may prefer the modernized version of the Joker origin in Batman: The Killing Joke by Alan Moore, and the flick may heavily borrow from that very comic. However, Moore's story is without a doubt rooted in this very tale.

Not the last time either that a later writer used the elements of the Red Hood in a later retelling of the Joker origin. Some writers deviated much from this story, but still kept an element or two from this story in their twisted version.

For instance, Paul Dini had the man who would become the Joker as a ruthless gangster who created the Red Hood identity to further his sadistic exploits. So, Red Hood identity still borrowed from the story contained in Detective Comics #168 as well as Batman being involved in the disfigurement of the man who would become Joker.

To make a long story short, this tale influenced and inspired many a later writers one way or the other when it came to the origin tale of the Joker. The man responsible for the greatness of this tale and for much of the creation of the Batman mythos is Bill Finger!

Alright, this is a widely known key issue and always a sought-out comic for obvious reasons, so let's stop wankin' around and get to the values of this bad boy from the Golden Age.

Overstreet Guide 1982-83 12 Edition

Mint: $140
Fine: $70
Good: $24

Overstreet Guide 1990-91 20th Edition

Near Mint: $950
Fine: $395
Good: $158

Overstreet Guide 2002-03 33rd Edition

Near Mint: $4,200
Very Fine/Near Mint: $3,150
Very Fine: $2,100
Fine: $1,008
Very Good: $672
Good: $336

Overstreet Guide 2014-15 44th Edition

Near Mint (low): $11,000
Very Fine/Near Mint: $7,675
Very Fine: $4,350
Fine: $1,785
Very Good: $1,190
Good: $595

Overstreet Guide 2015-16 45th Edition

Near Mint (low): $15,000
Very Fine/Near Mint: $10,460
Very Fine: $5,920
Fine: $2,433
Very Good: $1,622
Good: $811

Overstreet Guide 2016-17 46th Edition

Near Mint (low): $19,000
Very Fine/Near Mint: $14,000
Very Fine: $9,000
Fine: $4,200
Very Good: $2,800
Good: $1,400

Overstreet Guide 2017-18 47th Edition

Near Mint (low): $34,000
Very Fine/Near Mint: $24,000
Very Fine: $14,000
Fine: $6,600
Very Good: $4,400
Good: $2,200

Holy smokes? Are those typos for VF/NM and NM- values in the most recent OPG? Yowza!

And some say Golden Age key comics are over-looked? Well, actually, quite a lot are in the current market but this one isn't obviously. Blue chip Batman key issue for sure and has proven to still be one of the better comics to invest in from the Golden Age.

Impressive growth in the OPG, but I wonder how well this has done online? Time to hit up some Heritage Auctions' sales for this issue. No 2017 sales so far so here's the most recent sales. The Restos are interesting when it comes to their disparity (slight/moderate or old resto standards vs. new).

GoCollect? We can try but I doubt there will be a lot of sales for this issue during 2017 so far. I may be surprised.

Then again, maybe not. So, I put this to the "All Time" option which probably covers about 4 years. As I already thought prior, there are not that many over-all sales of this Golden Age goodie, and most likely because it's already so sought-out and up there in price and value.

Just a teeny guess there. I could be wrong.

Only three 2017 slabbed eBay sales of Detective Comics #168  within a span of about 4 years that GoCollect has recorded as of this writing. They are as follows:


January 2017 CGC 1.0 - $3,650
March 2017 CGC 4.0 - $9,000
April 2017 CGC 1.8 -  $3,500

I suppose I'll group 2016 together as well. What the hell, right?


April 2016 CGC 5.0 - $7,655
April 2016 CGC 5.5 - $9,100
April 2016 CGC 7.5 - $14,544

Some interesting numbers and not really because of the recent confirmation or the earlier rumors of Batman: The Killing Joke being the comic book story that was to be adapted for live action. Personally, this is a great and significant key for a great and significant comic villain.

Yes, I know most grades are expensive for Detective Comics #168, but some comic villains and their keys have been great comic investments over the years. Aside from that, R.I.P. Cesar Romero and Heath Ledger.

In the poll I had recently in the Ramblings of A Comic Geek: The Killing Joke post, most said they'd like to see a Joker origin play out live-action in the DCEU. 54% thought it would be cool to see, 33% said they don't wanna see that, and 13% could care less.

An entire movie though? Word is that Todd Phillips and Scott Silver will co-scribe the flick with Phillips also directing. Also legendary Martin Scorsese is on board as a producer, and this Joker will star a younger actor and not Jared Leto.


Tuesday, August 22, 2017

1st Comic Meetings of Luke Cage & Jessica Jones

This is sort of an extension of the Netflix Defenders From Panel to Screen post recently done. Not entirely because Jessica Jones & Luke Cage already met in season 1 of Jessica Jones.

Their meeting in that show was also based on a comic and a scene was plucked directly from its pages. If you notice the title of this post, it has "Meetings" instead of the singular version. 

How can you have more than one 1st meeting? In comics, I call these either 1st published meetings or 1st historical or canonical meetings.

Often, not always, these canonical debuts or meetings or whatnot are due to retcons. That's often but not always.

Alias 1 -1st appearance of Jessica Jones
So what is the difference between them? Well, a first published meeting is when a comic hit the stands or comic shop and has two characters interact together on panel for the very first time...ever. 

So comic comes out, readers see Jessica Jones and Luke Cage in a scene together for first time...first published meeting. Luke and Jessica's first published meeting is very simple and is in the same comic that debuts the character of Jessica Jones in Alias #1.

Jessica Jones Meets Luke Cage in Alias #1
Panels from Alias #1 - debut of Jessica Jones

That scene already played out in Jessica Jones season one as we all already know. As seen in the panels above, the pair already seem to know each other. This does leave the door open for a writer to tell an earlier tale later on when these two first met in Marvel's own historical or canonical timeline.

Actually, that's exactly what happened concerning the 1st canonical meeting of Luke Cage and Jessica Jones, and Brian Michael Bendis decided to reveal this historic event. Yes, it was told in flashback and in a later issue.

What's cool about this issue is that it also tells how Jessica Jones met Iron Fist as well. Alright, the issue is The Pulse #14, and it came out almost 5 years after Alias #1.

So Luke Cage asks Jessica to marry her in the issue and Jessica is overwhelmed and then tells their baby Danielle how she "met daddy". It was during a time when she had a very brief stint as a hero named Knightress and crashed a Maggia meeting that had the Owl in attendance. 

The Pulse #14 scene where Iron Fist and Luke Cage meet Jessica Jones as Knightress
From The Pulse #14

So The Pulse #14 was written long after Alias #1 and tells the story of when Jessica Jones meets both Luke Cage and Iron Fist in a flashback. Alias #1 - 1st published meeting. The Pulse - 1st canonical meeting.

As for Daredevil or Matt Murdock? Well, I know the title of the post says 1st Meetings of Luke Cage and Jessica Jones, but I already brought Iron Fist into the fold. Furthermore and since we already brought up the Alias comic series, why not add a little extra more comic goodness in this little piece?

Well, I don't see what the harm would be in that. Alright, that scene in the Defenders where Jessica Jones is in the police interrogation room with Misty Knight and Matt Murdock in his lawyer guise comes in was plucked from the actual comics. Sure, it may have been altered to fit into the show's story line but the comics did have a similar scene as you'll soon see below.

Panels from Alias #3

So, there's the comic version, and those panels are from Alias #3. No Misty Knight in the actual comics, but Matt Murdock does come in and tell Jessica Jones that she no longer needs to talk to them coppers anymore. A similar scene also played out in the Netflix Defenders show.

Defenders scene were Matt Murdock meets Jessica Jones

Yep, from panel to screen and for just a bit of fun. Hope to see you back here soon for more comic goodness.

Monday, August 21, 2017

Netflix Defenders Review From Panel to Screen

First and foremost, I'm going to get this out of the way: If you have not yet watched The Defenders on Netflix, stop reading here. The title clearly states "From Panel to Screen", so there will be spoilers.


Actually, there might be quite a few. Also, this is not speculating or specin' or whatever the terminology is that has permeated a part of the culture of our hobby. Talking about comics that inspired a show, an episode or scene isn't talking up a comic nor implying that everyone and their grandmas go out an try to fill up a short or long box full of these comics.

What you end up doing is up to you. I'm excited about the show. I actually really, really enjoyed it and thought that the chemistry of this supposed "non-team" was great.

I finally enjoyed Kristen Ritter as Jessica Jones and did like Finn Jones as Iron Fist lot better than I thought I would. I did like the Iron Fist show, but was worried when the trailer for the Defenders made him seem cringe worthy. 

It was also really cool to see these relationships start to develop finally. Ah, you know that's a definite lead in, right? 

What's the obvious budding relationship or friendship that I most likely was watching for in The Defenders?

Heroes for Hire, of course. Actually, it was the friendship between Luke Cage and Danny Rand, Iron Fist. Most comic fans should know that these two are best bros, maybe not yet on screen but in the comics they sure are best-friends.

While we all know that there partnership as Heroes for Hire hasn't played out yet live action and may not ever in the realm of Netflix, there is, of course, an element of their 1st ever meeting in comics that did somewhat inspire their on screen meeting.

Like many first meetings between comic characters, there is some sort of reason why two heroes end up going at it. Sometimes, it's a misunderstanding and sometimes it's because of foul play.

In the show, it's a misunderstanding. In the comics, it's actually foul play.

As most already know, Power Man #48 is this issue where these two meet for the first time. As the cover shows, the two do end up brawling also, and the cover is not misleading. Here's how this first meeting an battle happens in the panels and pages of Power Man #48.

Eventually, Luke Cage gets the upper hand, and later in the fight, he almost chokes Iron Fist to death.

A little side note concerning this issue is that I think it's the first published meeting between Colleen Wing and Luke Cage, Misty Knight and Luke Cage and Iron Fist and Luke Cage/Power Man. Obviously, the show doesn't quite follow the source material when it comes to this.

In the comics, Luke Cage kidnaps Colleen Wing but is looking for Misty Knight. He finds her and after a short fight with her and then Iron Fist, we later learn that Luke Cage had done all this because Bushmaster was holding Claire Temple and Noah Burnstein hostage.

This forced Cage to do Bushmaster's bidding but it ultimately just ended up having Iron Fist and Luke Cage cross paths, have their first team up, and eventually become partners and best-friends in the good ole comics.

The show has Luke Cage investigate a few local kids who seemingly work for the Hand unknowingly. When Iron Fist and Colleen Wing investigate a place where the same kids Cage has taken an interest in show up, the Fist meets the Power Man when Danny roughs up one of the kids or answers.

A cool fight between the two ensues and is very different than the actual comics. The fight between the two in the comics has Iron Fist giving Cage a pretty good whomping until Luke gets a hold of the Immortal Fist and almost chokes him out as shown in the panels above.

In the 2nd episode of the Defenders, Luke Cage pretty much hands Danny Rand his ass for much of the fight. Rand hits and kicks Cage a lot but his attacks have no effect, and for some reason, I quite enjoyed seeing Rand have a hell of time trying to hurt Luke Cage.

Only until Danny uses the Iron Fist does Cage actually get hurt in the fight. The fight ends with the arrival of the police.

So, a switch around from panel to screen concerning the first brawl between Luke Cage and Iron Fist. Was a cool fight to finally see live-action also, and I did have a geek out moment.


This was known long before the show was released. News that Elektra would return has been out for a while, and I've already talked about the comic version of this prior.

Before we get into the other important relationship that hints at developing in season one of The Defenders, the show kind of uses the Resurrection story in Daredevil #190 when it comes to the return of Elektra. I mean "kind of" as in very loosely based off that issue, and I mean very loosely.

As those who have watched the show by now, Sigourney Weaver's character Alexandra is an original creation for the show. Her and Madame Gao are both original creations for the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Both characters were not in the comics prior, but in the comics, it was the Hand who tried to resurrect Elektra in Daredevil #190. Daredevil, Black Widow, Kingpin, and a Chaste character named Stone raced to keep the Hand from doing so in that issue and were successful. Sort of.

In the end, the Hand did not resurrect Elektra, but Stone ends up doing so. The Defenders definitely takes the connection of the Hand and the attempted resurrection of Elektra from the comics but has the twist of them succeeding with the interference of Daredevil, Kingpin, and, obviously, Black Widow nowhere to be found on the streaming side of live-action.

No big deal, not like I expect a literal translation from panels to screen when it comes to this. Elektra already died in the Netflix stuff before the introduction of Bullseye.

She became part of the Hand after her death and resurrection in the Netflix MCU. In the comics, she was revealed to have been a former member of the Hand prior to her debut in Daredevil #168.

So in the show, there is also sort of a ritual as well. In episode 3, the resurrection of Elektra has some kind of goop that's poured into a coffin with Elektra's dead body in it.

This somehow resurrects Elektra and she becomes a weapon for the Hand. Obviously different from the comics and no surprise.

In the actual comics, Daredevil is actually present at this ritual and so is Stone and Black Widow. They do fight off the Hand and the Kingpin's men end up getting into the fray on DD's side.

After the mayhem, they discover that Elektra's body is gone and so is Stone. Then at the very end, it's revealed that the same person climbing the mountain side in the very beginning of the comic is none other than Elektra.

Welcome back, darlin'! It was revealed that Elektra was a former member of The Hand in Daredevil #174, same issue that debuts the mystical ninja clan.

By the time she debuts in Daredevil #168, she has operated on her own for quite some time.


I've talked about Daughters of the Dragon several times and thought that it may have been inevitable. Have to admit that I thought it might not be happening after watching Luke Cage and then Iron Fist.

Bummer, I thought. I would've liked to see that. However, after season one of Defenders, it does seem that a relationship or friendship between Colleen Wing and Misty Knight is budding. 

Also, Misty Knight loses her arm in the show, and she does have a bionic arm in the comics. We know where they may be heading with that, right?

And I think it's really cool. Simone Missick is an amazing Misty Knight, and her entering the realm of superherodom and kickin' butt alongside Colleen Wing with a bionic arm in the near future does get me a bit excited. 

So, as we should expect, it is quite different from panel to screen. In her debut, I believe Misty Knight already had a bionic arm and was already friends with Colleen Wing.

Okay, since Misty Knight and Danny Rand meet for the first time in Defenders, I'll show how the original source portrays this 1st meeting. Remember I mentioned how two heroes in comics usually end up fighting during their first meet and greet and one of the reasons was because of a misunderstanding? Well, there ya go!

Once again, Misty Knights first published debut is in Marvel Premiere #21, which is the issue those above panels originate. Marvel Team-Up #1 is a retconned appearance quite a bit after.  God, I hate always having to say that but some sources out there are just noting MTU #1 as her debut and not mentioning the fact it was retconned after.

Misty Knight and Iron Fist's meeting in Defenders was not as dramatic and less confrontational. If you haven't watched it yet, you'll see what I mean. 

Sorry, got side tracked but back to Daughters of the Dragon. Actually, back to Misty Knight losing her arm which plays out both in the actual comic books and the live action show inspired by the comics.

So Misty Knight loses her arm protecting Colleen Wing in the Defenders show. In the actual comics, Misty Knight loses her arm from a bomb she comes across while on duty as a police officer.

This was first revealed in Iron Fist #6. It is a very brief origin, but it's enough to explain how she loses her arm.

From Iron Fist #6

So Daughters of the Dragon may be on the horizon as a relationship is forming. Misty Knight did save Colleen Wing in the comics also. 

Misty getting her bionic arm in a Netflix show is probably for certain. 


Major spoiler here, and the end scene of the Defenders does have a homage to an actual comic. This hints and sets up a lot for Daredevil season 3, and I'm super excited about it.

This image below sees Matt Murdock all messed up and lying in a bed with a nun beside him. The other image below shows the same but from the actual comic.

In the show, one of the nuns calls for a Maggie. In the comics, Maggie ends up being Matt Murdock's mother, and that splash page is from Daredevil #230.

This is from the Born Again story line. Go figure that it's another classic Daredevil story arc by Frank Miller.

Now, why am I personally excited about this? Okay, as much as Frank Miller's The Hand is awesome, I admit that I am tired of the Hand.

They've kept the Kingpin sidelined on the bench, and if they go the Born Again route in Daredevil season three, this will bring back Wilson Fisk as a major villain. In the comics, the Born Again story sees the Kingpin of Crime learn the identity of Daredevil. Chaos ensues for The Man Without Fear courtesy of Kingpin after that nugget of info is learned.

In my humble opinion, I liked how the Defenders show pieced all this together. It's not perfect by any means, but there were plenty of comic geekery moments.

I enjoyed Defenders, maybe a little more than I should've. I think the chemistry of Charlie Cox, Michael Colter, Finn Jones, Kristen Ritter, Simone Missick, and Jessica Henwick was great. 

What did you think of the Defenders?