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Wednesday, May 17, 2017

Copper Age Spider-Man Key Comics Part 1

Welcome to the kick off of the Copper Age Spider-Man key issues section. It may be a shorter one than the Bronze Age section of Spider-Man keys but not too sure about that just yet.

Once again, the major keys are ones that I've discussed on this site before and probably more than once. Probably many of times, and most likely enough times to where I don't even want to talk about them because I'm sick of 'em.

Don't worry, because I will dig up some over-looked keys that I think deserve attention as well. Some that I have yet to mention on this site before, but ones that I have maybe already teased on the Total Comic Mayhem face book page or Google+ community.

We are getting into the early Venom keys when the character was just a crazy black costume. I did write earlier that Amazing Spider-Man #252 is the 1st appearance of the black costume and does not tie with the two that are often mistaken as doing so.

This time around, I will show you proof that Amazing Spider-Man #252 came out first before the other two. Ready? Alright let's get into this!

Black Cat learns Spidey's identity

I was asked if this was an important key issue concerning Spidey or Black Cat, and I'm not really sure to be honest. I think I'll bring up the merits of why this had an affect on both Spidey and the character of Black Cat and let you decide if it's a key worth considering.

Alright, so before Mary Jane Watson revealed that she knew Peter was Spider-Man for a long time, Petey decided that he should let Felicia Hardy know that her Spider was actually a person underneath the mask.

Apparently, Felicia Hardy had a hard time when it came to realizing that Spider-Man was just a person with an ordinary civilian life underneath his nifty threads, but at the time, Peter liked the fact that his relationship with Black Cat was the first time he didn't have to continually hide his life as Spider-Man from someone he loved. The love woes of a super-hero, right?

In this regard and when it came to love relationships, it is the first time that Peter reveals to a lover that he is Spider-Man and she believes him. It's not the first time his identity is revealed before by someone else or he willingly reveals it.

Doc Ock did unmask him in Amazing Spider-Man #12 but Parker is so geeky that nobody believes he could be Spidey for a minute. Green Goblin learned of Spidey's identity in Amazing Spider-man #39, the issue right before Gobby's 1st origin story.

Also, Pete did reveal to his friends in Amazing Spider-Man #87 that he was Spidey but they weren't sure what to believe. In the end of that issue, A masked Pete (web mask) got Hobie Brown (Prowler) to impersonate Spider-Man in front of him and his buds and that act covered up that near reveal.

Captain Stacy's last few words implied that he knew Peter was Spider-Man. On the identity reveal front, not really near the first time for Spidey. However, Black Cat does believe him but just freaks out.

Amazing Spider-Man #87 and Gwen Stacy, Pete. Stop fibbin' with that "I've never revealed my identity to anyone before" bit.

Yowza! Sorry, Pete, you don't cut it for Black Cat but you as Spider-Man sure does? Reminds me of the making of Rocky Balboa and how Sly Stallone mentions that the people of Philly don't really want Sylvester Stallone but do want Rocky and actually address and treat Sly as the character.

Doesn't seem like this one is on the radar of most collectors or even speculators looking for a quick flip and definitely not those looking for actual comic investments to hold onto for a spell. CGC Census is pretty thin for this issue so far.

Once again, leave it up to you on whether this should be a sought-out key Spider-Man comic or not. Peter Parker, The Spectacular Spider-Man #87 has the cover date of February, 1984.

Black Cat gets bad luck power
Origin of Black Cat's power

Let's talk a bit more about some Black Cat key issues here, and I think this one might be over-looked or not that well-known in the world of comic collecting. At least, I don't think anyone is really noting it.

CGC isn't so far and neither is Overstreet so far. Well, Felicia Hardy prior to this was just a normal female that was an extremely skilled thief.

In a few events where Black Cat feels that she is a liability to Spidey because of her lack of superpowers, she tries to find a way to gain some in order to be on par with her lover. After being rejected by everyone including the Fantastic Four, Avengers, Henry Pym, and Tony Stark, she is confronted by a mysterious benefactor who offers to her to undergo a process that the Scorpion and the Human Fly underwent.

She accepts and is basically given the bad luck power to those who intend her harm. In more scientific Marvel speak, it is the psionic ability to affect probability fields, in which anyone in her immediate vicinity that she feels is a threat or causes her stress will be highly susceptible to freak accidents.

Unfortunately, she finds out that her benefactor is the Kingpin, one of her Spider's deadliest of foes. 

Important key comic for the character of Black Cat? You bet since this power is iconic to the character.  

Very low CGC Census and that's no surprise since this issue is not well-known at all for it's importance or goodness for the character of Black Cat.

Once again, no one is noting the importance of this issue to the character of the Black Cat so it is definitely a sleeper to industry and comic fans at large. If you're a fan of Black Cat or Spider-Man, this is definitely one to snag up while it's still under the radar.

So far there's basically three known editions of this comic to consider, and those are newsstands, direct market and Canadian Price Variants. Only one of those 75 cent Canadians in the CGC Census so far and it's a 9.8 Universal.

April, 1984 is the cover date to Peter Parker, The Spectacular Spider-Man #89.

1st appearance of black costume

I have to admit that I'm not big on these ties with issue whatever that goes on with comics. Sometimes it is very true that an issue does tie with another issue by more than just cover date. However, sometimes, just sometimes, an issue may have an earlier copyright date than the other issue or issues that tie with it.

We can go by the cover alone that states "introducing the new Spider-Man", but the issue does clearly show the return of Spidey and Curt Conners from the adventure that was going on in Marvel Super-Heroes Secret Wars. Funny thing is that Marvel Super-Heroes Secret Wars #8 was not on sale yet when this comic hit the stands. 

Here is the scene that shows Spidey returning to good ole planet Earth in his new duds.

Now, as I'll explain when we get to that issue, Marvel Team-Up #141 recaps Spidey's return with ole Doc Conners. I will provide the panels for that reference when we get to that comic and it is in the past tense but only by a mere mere minutes after Spidey's return.

Still that segment is told in flashback so that particular event depicted in Marvel Team-Up #141 happened very shortly after the above even shown in their return in Amazing Spider-Man #252.

This should be the 1st appearance of Spidey's black costume and/or the symbiote that eventually becomes Venom in the Copper Age. Pretty under-valued comic, and not sure if it's because of the "tied with" confusion  or because there seems to be a shit load of copies for both newsstands and direct market copies.

Maybe both? Dunno. As presented earlier when this issue made the Undervalued and Sleeper comics series, here's the GoCollect eBay sales data that I collected at the time.


9.8 NS | 9.8 DM
60 | 61

9.6 NS | 9.6 DM 
104 | 82

9.4 NS | 9.4 DM 
94 | 49

9.2 NS | 9.2 DM 

73 | 34

Definitely an outlier when it comes to newsstand and direct market Amazing Spider-Man #252 copies, and as mentioned before, this is the only key issue where I've found that there have been more sales of newsstands on eBay than direct market. Take it as you may, but this is the only 80s newsstand comic I've come across so far in which the disparity was flipped around.

The black costume was designed by comic fan Randy Schueller. He got $220 bucks, and this costume design would inspire the look for the second Spider-Woman, Julia Carpenter, and Venom as well. I believe Mike Zeck did the final tweaks to the black costume design though.

Alright, we both know there are newsstands and direct market editions but there are also Canadian Edition Price Variants for this comic as well. CGC does have census data for these and here they are compared to the regular U.S. newsstands and direct markets so far.



Canadian edition cover is to the left there, and they are 1st prints and virtually the same as regular U.S. newsstands except the price difference of 60 cents to 75 cents.

I still find it strange that they call it "Canadian Editions". Sure the market target for these 75 cent editions was Canada and the price is different than the regular U.S. newsstand and direct market editions, but the price is still depicted in U.S. currency on the cover.

Quite a few are predicting that these 75 and 95 cent price variant "Canadian Editions" are going to be the next 30 and 35 cent price variants. I'm not against that and do actually think it's appropriate.

When it comes to actual story continuity with ASM #251, MTU #41, and Spectacular Spider-Man #90, it's virtually impossible to determine since certain events all weave in and out of three books and sometimes simultaneously. For instance, Peter Parker goes back to his apartment in ASM #252 and then eventually leaves to go get a pizza after calling Aunt May and trying to get a hold of Felicia Hardy.

Guess who drops by and just misses her Spider? That's right, the Black Cat does.

This event is also shown in Peter Parker, The Spectacular Spider-Man #90 as depicted in the panels below. Well, it only shows her arriving and at the apartment but no Peter.

From Peter Parker, The Spectacular Spider-Man #90

When Black Cat realizes her Spider isn't there, she takes off to go looking for him so the events portrayed in Spectacular Spider-Man #90 is happening during the time Peter comes back to the apartment and then tries to sleep in this issue of ASM #252.

From Amazing Spider-Man #252

Of course, his new costume goes over to him and it's time to do some web-slingin'  an fightin' a little crime in NYC. After a few encounters the comic ends off with these two panels:

I am assuming that somewhere off panel after that end page to ASM #252 Spidey goes to Aunt May's house to find Black Cat as shown at the end of Peter Parker, The Spectcacular Spider-Man #90. Concerning continuity, it's a mess trying to determine which of these three books is really the 1st black costume.

However, there is are several nails in the coffin that confirms Marvel Team-Up #41 and Spectacular Spider-Man #90 do not tie with Amazing Spider-Man #252 as the first appearance of Spidey's black costume.

According to Mike's Amazing World, Amazing Spider-Man #252 has the shipping date of January 10th and the on sale date of January 31st referenced by several sources such as Comic Reader #216, Marvel Age #11, and Amazing Heroes #40. Here's the screen shot from Mike's Amazing Comics and the actual shipping and on sale page for Amazing Spider-Man #252 in Marvel Age #11.

The shipping and on sale dates for Marvel Team-Up #141 and Spectacular Spider-Man #90 in Marvel Age #11 are shown in the next listings after this one. Cover date is May, 1984 for Amazing Spider-Man #252.

2nd black costume (1 page)
1st black costume in title

In terms of continuity, it should be common sense that the events of Spider-Man meeting the Black Cat after he returns to Earth happens after the events of Amazing Spider-Man #252.

Once again, this issue recaps the events of Spidey returning with Doc Conners and even references Amazing Spider-Man #252 in the notes. However, it's not so clear cut and once again the time line lapses between this issue, Amazing Spider-Man #252 and Marvel Team-Up #141.

It is clear that Spider-Man first arrives back on Earth in ASM #252. That can't really be contested, but then in the later half of ASM #252, it shows Black Cat beginning her search for Spider-Man or leaving his pad to go look for him.

Well, this issue takes up Black Cat's search for her beloved Spider. At the end of the issue, Spider-Man finally shows up in the last page when Black Cat goes to look for him at Aunt May's house. This is night time or the very early morning hours by the way.

In Amazing Spider-Man #252, it shows Peter Parker going back home (daytime) after returning Conners back to his family. Parker ends up going out after contacting Aunt May and trying to phone up Felicia to let them know he's okay and brings back a pizza.

I'm assuming during this time, Black Cat is looking for him as shown in this issue. Later, Peter Parker is shown trying to sleep but he cannot. So he ventures out as Spider-Man and helps with some local disturbances.

Although not shown at the end of ASM #252, I am assuming he does eventually find his way to Aunt May's house and reconnects with Black Cat like depicted at the end of this issue (Spectacular Spider-Man #90) here.

This issue's events happens in the middle of both ASM #252 and Marvel Team Up #141.  It's easier if you actually read the issues to understand what's going on.


Shipping date for Spectacular Spider-Man #90 is January 24th with the on sale date of February 14th as shown below in the pages of Marvel Age #11. 

This issue of Peter Parker, The Spectacular Spider-Man #90  is cover dated May, 1984 and does actually tie with Marvel Team-Up #141 as the 2nd appearance of the black costume in comics when it comes to cover date, shipping and on sale date as shown in the page from Marvel Age #11 above this paragraph.

2nd black costume
1st black costume in title

This is another issue that sees Spidey in his new black costume. As mentioned before, it's been long believed that this issue ties with Amazing Spider-Man #252 and Peter Parker, The Spectacular Spider-Man #90.

While this issue does tie with Spectacular Spider-Man #90, Amazing Spider-Man #252 precedes this issue and thus Spectacular Spider-Man issue #90. This issue does reference Amazing Spider-Man #252, but taking actual continuity into all this is a waste since all three comics do intertwine in time with certain events that take place at the same time.

I do think that the first half of this issue runs simultaneously with the events of Amazing Spider-Man #252 but the story follows Daredevil in the beginning. Here's the panels that show the news reporters recapping the news of Spidey's return a few minutes after the fact.

Then in this issue it cuts to the next day and shows Peter Parker at the Daily Bugle and Ben Ulrich asks where he's been. So, Peter is clearly returning to the Bugle after his disappearance (Battleworld).

However, in Spectacular Spider-Man #90, Black Cat is looking for Spider-Man everywhere and even visits the Daily Bugle to look for Peter Parker, in which they have yet to see him recently. So the events in Spectacular Spider-Man #90 and the early events that kick off Spectacular Spider-Man #91 happen off panel during the middle of this very issue right before it cuts to "The Next Day".  

From Marvel Team-Up #141

Actually, this scene of Peter Parker returning to the Daily Bugle is also shown in Peter Parker, Spectacular Spider-Man #91. Okay, enough of the intertwining of this issue with the two already discussed above this listing and let's get into some CGC Census data here.

Crazy that this issue has a hell of a lot more submissions than Spectacular Spider-Man #90 in the CGC Census, but then again, they also note Marvel Team-Up #141 as tying with Amazing Spider-Man #252 as 1st debut of black costume. Spectacular Spider-Man #90 is just noted as "1st black costume in title" by CGC.

Marvel Team-Up #141 has the same cover date of May, 1984 as Amazing Spider-Man #252 and Spectacular Spider-Man #90 but has the shipping date of January 24th with the on sale date of February 14th. Here's how the source references look over at Mike's Amazing World.

Click the image to view the larger version. Once again, Marvel Team-Up #141 is listed with Peter Parker, Spectacular Spider-Man #90 in the January 24th shipping and February 14 on sale dates in the pages of Marvel Age #11. 

MTU #141 ties with Spectacular Spider-Man #90 as the 2nd appearance of the black costume not the 1st. As shown before, here is the page that confirms this.

Once again, you can click the image to get a larger one if you can't read it.

True that the cover date for Marvel Team-Up #141 ties with Amazing Spider-Man #252 and Peter Parker, The Spectacular Spider-Man #90, but MTU #141 & SS #90 came out at least two weeks later than ASM #252.

Looks like another mistake that Overstreet and third party grading companies will have to deal with in the near future. Maybe not though.

I think they'll only change something if they get enough votes (complaints really) to do so. We shall see about that.

1st appearance of The Rose

Not to be outdone by Spidey's new black costume and look, Richard Fisk needed an upgrade as well. After all, he is the son of the Kingpin and Vanessa Fisk.

A third-rate villain called the Schemer just doesn't cut it in the Fisk family, so Richie decides to change it up as the Rose. Don't get it wrong here.

It's not like ole Richard is shown taking up the Rose villainy outright, nor did he take out a page ad in the Daily Bugle. Nope, the Rose was a mystery villain for Spidey for quite a while.

Nobody knew who the mysterious Rose was until it was revealed in Amazing Spider-Man #286. This time as the Rose, Richard joined his father's organization as the Rose, and seemed to be a crime lord under Kingpin's control.

Nope, just a ruse to once again try to undermine his father and seize control of his criminal empire. The Rose was aided by Alfredo Morelli and the brain-washed Ned Leeds, who acted as the Hobgoblin and was later revealed to be a fall guy for Roderick Kingsley.

In later comics, Richard would end up becoming the anti-hero known as Blood Rose, who went on a killing spree of gunning down criminals. Unfortunately, he would return back to the underworld and become a nuisance for his father again.

Son or not, you mess with the Kingpin and you wind up taking the dirt nap somewhere down the road. So as the CGC Census shows, there are Canadian Editions which are newsstands (UPC codes) and do have the variant prices of 75 cents.

Alright, I'll show ya the two other different covers. The cover on the left is the 60 cent direct market edition and the one on the right is the Canadian Newsstand Edition.

See the differences for yourselves if you're new here and have no idea what I'm talking about concerning these different editions during this time in comics.

Regular U.S. direct and newsstands have 60 cents on the cover. Marvel Age #12 has the on sale date of March 6th and
Amazing Spider-Man #253 has the cover date of June, 1984.

1st appearance of Puma 

Another character who started off as a villain for the web-slinger and then became a good guy, Puma is Thomas Fireheart who is of Native American descent and belongs to a tribe in the New Mexico territories. The tribe has a prophecy in which a powerful being will come and destroy the world for generations.

Preparing for this doom, Fireheart's tribe used mysticism and selective breeding to create the ultimate warrior. Obviously, Fireheart gained the right to become this ultimate warrior and can transform into a mountain lion like were-cat.

Thomas is an astute business man and the CEO of Fireheart Enterprises. He is well-known in his civilian identity as well as an accomplished mercenary and assassin as Puma.

Do not think this is an overly sought-out 1st appearance key issue, regardless of it being a Spider-Man one or not. Most recent CGC 9.8 sold for only $129.95 back in March of this year, 2017. 

Yes, I do consider that still cheap. CGC is not all that impressive just yet, but there are quite a bit of 9.8s and 9.6s recorded so far. I'm sure those newsstands and direct market editions are mixed in with those numbers below.

Although CGC Census has yet to have any data on them, there are Canadian Edition Price Variants for this issue also. Cover of the Canadian Edition is shown to left for reference and the cover price is 75 cents as opposed to 60 cents for the U.S. copies.

I do not think Puma's origin is told in this issue nor is it told in the next. The Rose hires Puma to rid of Spider-Man in this issue, and although they do meet, Spidey and Puma don't really have a battle until next issue. 

Actually, Black Cat and Puma have a short fight in the beginning and then Spidey and Puma finally go at it at the end of the issue. The Amazing Spider-Man #256 has the cover date of September, 1984.

2nd appearance of Puma
M.J. reveals she knows Peter is Spidey

Jeez, first Peter reveals his identity to Black Cat and then finds out that Mary Jane Watson has known he's the wall-crawler for years? Looks like Peter Parker isn't as smooth as he once thought.

We all know that Mary Jane would go onto marry Peter, even despite knowing that he leads a dangerous double life. Things just keep unfolding for our friendly neighborhood Spider-Man, and Mary Jane let's Peter know that she knows at the very end of the issue.

This issue also sees the 2nd appearance of the Puma, and the confrontation is carried over from #256 to this issue. Actually, the two finally do have a nice battle before M.J. drops the 411 bomb on Peter.

Having a sense of honor, Puma does not finish Spidey as he is wounded or not 100% at peak fighting performance. Black Cat is in this issue as well.

Since the debut isn't really that sought-out, I don't expect this issue being the 2nd appearance of Puma to be in high demand. However, this issue does reveal that Mary Jane Watson knows that Peter is Spider-Man, and that she's known for a long time as depicted in panels shown.

CGC Census is low for this issue so far, but I definitely think there are a lot of raw copies out there that have yet to be graded or even considered. There are Canadian Editions but none submitted or recorded just yet. Cover image for those is shown above and to the left, and the price variant is still 75 cents.

Once again, the numbers in the CGC Census represent both U.S. newsstand and direct market editions for this issue. Newsstands were still the dominate channel of distribution at this time, so direct market covers were the variants at this time, no?

Anyway, here's the cover to the direct market editions in case you're new here and have no clue what I'm yappin' about. Key issue worth considering? I'll let you decide on that call.

I do have to say that the event of M.J. revealing that she knows Peter's secret does lead up to the origin of Mary Jane Watson in a few issues after this one. We shall see that one in Part 2 of this Spider-Man key issues series that deals with the Copper Age.

Origin of Puma is still not revealed yet and Amazing Spider-Man #257 has the cover date of October, 1984.

Black costume revealed as symbiote

Here's where things do start to get good and eventually progressing towards Venom and the popular character's real debut. In this issue, Peter's not feeling all that right with his new costume and seeks help.

That help ends up being none other than Reed Richards of the Fantastic Four. The brilliant Mister Fantastic does some tests on our hero and discovers that Spidey's new costume is actually a living symbiote.  

There goes the neighborhood!

Mister Fantastic also learns that this creature is trying to permanently graft itself onto Peter. That will just not do, you know? Driving it off Peter's body with a sonic blaster, Reed places the symbiote in a special container for further testing, of course.

Spider-Man would return to his original costume in the next issue, but as we all know, this would not be the end for the symbiote costume who would later become known as Venom. Dun-da-dun!

I wonder what this issue like in the ole CGC Census. Oh, wait, there it is, and unlike issues #256 and #257, there is a Canadian Edition submission for this issue! Go figure, a key that has to do with Venom, and, at least, one has to be submitted.

Direct Market
Rock 'N Roll! Be interesting to see how many more get Canadians get added to the census in the near and later future. Definitely a key issue for any Spidey and Venom fan to own for sure. Well, at least, I think so.

Cover for direct market is shown. Canadian Edition Price Variants for this issue are 75 cents instead of 60 cents, and I think we expect more of those to get submitted in the future. Well, at least, more copies come out of the wood work. Right now, they are pretty scarce in the secondary market.

Aside from that bit of knowledge, I think we can wrap things up concerning this key issue. Oh, wait! One more thing is in order, and that is November, 1984 is the cover date to Amazing Spider-Man #258.

1st full Spider-Woman (Julia Carpenter)
1st She-Hulk & Titania battle

Might as well carry this over from the She-Hulk key issues since it does have the 1st full appearance of the new Spider-Woman (at that time, of course), Julia Carpenter. Her debut also saw her get a matching costume design like Spider-Man's new black and white costume.

As mentioned then, this issue will be popping up again on this site and here it is...again! So, gonna get this fact outta the way as told in the She-Hulk key issues series, this issue does see the first battle between She-Hulk and her well-known nemesis of Titania. 

If She-Hulk ever makes it to the big or small screen, her and Titania have to go at it. Actually, a She-Hulk TV show would be pretty cool. 

Definitely still a sleeper 1st appearance key issue. CGC Census is still low and I definitely think it's because this issue isn't as worth getting graded yet. Julia Carpenter is the second Spider-Woman in the Marvel Universe after Jessica Drew.

Julia did show up in a cameo in the previous issue in which she is completely in shadow. Basically just a cameo and the character was created by Jim Shooter and Mike Zeck. 

Unlike Spidey, Julia was intentionally given her powers as part of a secret government experiment operated by the Commission.

Still pretty cheap buys for both direct market and newsstands at the time of this writing. As of this writing and previous mentions of this book, it doesn't seem high on collector's want lists and is flying well below the radar.

Not so sure about the Canadian $1.00 price variant editions, though. Haven't really looked around for those, but they are apparently out there and do exist. Maybe you've got one in your collection and don't know it yet.

Marvel Super-Heroes Secret Wars #7 is cover dated November, 1984.

Origin Venom costume
1st meeting Spidey & Venom symbiote
2nd Julia Carpenter Spider-Woman

This issue used to be the first canonical appearance of Venom as an alien costume. Then Deadpool's Secret Wars #3 went and mucked that up by retconning Deadpool into the first Secret Wars story event. 

The Venom symbiote apparently bonded with him before doing so with Spidey also. Yeah, right! Lame!

Anyway, after a few months of readers wondering what the hell is up with this new Spidey costume, this issue reveals how Spidey got it and where he got it from. Therefore, it is the 1st written origin of the Venom costume.

Here's how it actually plays out in this issue and Marvel continuity:

Overstreet notes this as the 1st appearance Venom as an alien costume and that's really not too true. I do believe that Amazing Spider-Man #258 is the first time the costume is called a "symbiote" and when Reed says that it's sentient.  I believe he refers to the creature as "alien" as well in that issue, so this issue of Marvel Super-Heroes Secret Wars #8 isn't really the first debut of the costume as an alien costume.

Besides, if the black costume was always an alien costume, it's debut as any kind of costume would still be Amazing Spider-Man #252, right? Still, in the early saga of early Venom before Venom, I think this is still a great key for the character.

CGC does have some recorded Canadian Price Variant Editions in their census currently. The price difference or variant is $1.00 on these suckers as shown in the image to the left there. Here's how these bastids look so far compared to both U.S. newsstands and direct market copies in the CGC Census:

As detailed in the Undervalued and Sleeper keys post that information about this particular issue first showed up on this site, here's the apparent disparity between newsstand and direct market sales for CGC slabs on ole eBay for the last 2 years. Cover image to the left is a direct market copy if you have no idea what I'm talking about. 

It is different than the cover of the first image next to the headline of this listing.

High grade newsstands do appear to be more scarce than direct market CGC copies in the current secondary market, but as usual, you can take from that what you will concerning the information below.

9.8 NS | 9.8 DM

 13 | 370

9.6 NS | 9.8 DM
  23 | 289 

9.4 NS | 9.4 DM
 24 | 116

Okay, so Amazing Spider-Man #258 came out before and is the issue where they find out that Spidey's new black costume is a living thing. Marvel Super-Heroes Secret Wars #8 explains how Spidey first came into contact with this living thing and bonded with the symbiote costume on Battleworld.  

Therefore, it is technically the first canonical meeting between Spidey and the Venom symbiote. Another thing key happening that seems to get buried under the whole origin of the black costume thing is that this issue is the 2nd appearance of Julia Carpenter as the second Spider-Woman.

There is more to this issue than just Spidey getting the Venom costume, but so far Julia Carpenter is pretty over-looked or just not all that cared for in the collecting market yet. Marvel Super-Heroes Secret Wars #8 has the cover date of December, 1984.

Once again and concerning Amazing Spider-Man #252, Marvel Team-Up #141 and Spectacular Spider-Man #90, I suppose you can refuse that ASM #252 hit the stands earlier than the other two and continue to go by cover date but industry has already changed quite a few appearances due to earlier on sale dates.

Pep Comics #23 is one recent example and was found to be Archie's 2nd appearance instead of Jackpot Comics #4, as once thought before, due to Pep #23 hitting stands earlier than Jackpot. Yes, Overstreet and CGC did recently change the notation.

Avenging Spider-Man #9 was found to have hit the stands a week earlier than Captain Marvel #1 and replaced Carol Danver's debut as Captain Marvel in that issue. Carol Danvers does actually become Captain Marvel in Captain Marvel #1 or it is the issue that reveals how and when she takes up the name.

The story in Avenging Spider-Man #9 takes place after Captain Marvel #1, but Avenging #9 hit the stands before Captain #1. Once again, I didn't make up these standards or requirements, so if you got beef, take it up with them.

Overstreet has been noting Marvel Team-Up #141 as tying with Amazing Spider-Man #252 since 2001 as far as I can look back. Well, we all make mistakes and the availability of information is so much better these days.

As for the others, some are still pretty cheap sleepers or flying under the radar for now. Spectacular Spider-Man #89 is definitely a Black Cat key that's quite over-looked by Overstreet, the 3rd party grading companies, and even Spidey and Black Cat fans.

Onward to Part 2? Just click the link below!

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