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Wednesday, May 18, 2016

Undervalued & Sleeper Comics Part 11

We're getting back to this under-valued and sleeper comics series for a brief moment, and once again, we're still on an indie kick. Well, at least, I am.

So there's only gonna be three, and two of them are pretty under-valued. The first featured comic might be both a sleeper and under-valued. It's not an easy find out there.

Actually, all three of these comics aren't exactly abundant in the secondary market. Click this link if you missed Part 10, but if you're ready to roll, let's rock!

2000 A.D. PROG #224
1st appearance of Dark Judges

Wouldn't it be cool if the Dark Judges were in a Judge Dread movie? It would be odd to have the Dark Judges in a Dredd movie to be honest, and probably not really doable.

Still, the Dark Judges are some of Dredd's more awesome of foes, and like I said before, 2000 A.D. comics concerning Judge Dredd keys are not easy finds at all, especially here in the States. Yeah, so I'm saying this is both a sleeper and under-valued.

Fans may know of it loud and clear, but most of the secondary market as a whole most likely does not. Judge Death already appeared before this issue, so this issue sees the first appearance of his brothers Judge Fire, Judge Fear, and Judge Mortis.

2000 AD Prog #224 has the cover date of August, 1981.

eBay | mycomicshop | ComicLink | ComicConnect

1st appearance of Grendel
1st appearance of Argent the wolf

Does this current comic market really need a movie in order for a buying frenzy to happen for a 1st appearance key issue comic? Furthermore, why hasn't a Grendel movie even been considered yet?

Hey, I love me some gangster films, but a villainous assassin who ends up taking over New York's criminal underworld and is the protagonist of the story? I don't know how much more interesting of a story you can get.

Hey, if Deadpool can pull it off, and I don't see why Grendel shouldn't be able to. Grendel was a pretty popular character back when I was reading and collecting comics for sure, and he still carries a decent sized fan base.

So, disregarding any movie hype which is none, this is a late Bronze Age key issue that's actually rare. Primer #2 only has an estimated 1,800 print run, so if you're into rare comic books, this is definitely one that should be considered.

However, CGC Universal 9.8s haven't even surpassed the $1,000 mark yet? Really?

If you stack this one up to the Crow #1 (once again disregarding any movie hype), the 1st issue to the original Crow series has an estimated 10,000 print run, and that sucker is selling around the $700 to $900 mark. Last CGC 9.8 Primer #2 sold for $568.88 on eBay back in 2013.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #1 had an estimated 3,000 print run for 1st printings. That sucker is $15,000 for CGC 9.8s.

I know, TMNT had a cartoon, movies, lunchboxes, and la de da. A whole generation of whipper snappers grew up on TMNT.

Can't be said for Grendel, and I surely hope little kids didn't grow up on this comic. But, hey, we're disregarding those facts and talking about a key issue that's also rare and has a pretty good fan base as well.

Also, Primer #2 CGC 9.8s are harder to find in the market for really high grades than the others (Crow #1 & TMNT #1). Once again, I'm not saying it should be more valuable than those others.

All I'm saying is that it's under-valued compared to those others, and a Grendel movie would be badass. Talk about an R-rated, dark, action-packed comic, and we're talking about Grendel. I'd love to see it, and I'm sure other fans would love to see it.

Now, I ain't knocking NYX #3 and the 1st appearance of X-23 or Laura Kinney, but NYX #3 is already nearing the $1,000 mark and has above 40,000 copies.

I dunno. Call me crazy, but Primer #2 is definitely under-valued, and it's a double-whammy 1st appearance key issue that also debuts Grendel's main nemesis Argent the wolf, who is actually the good, bad guy in the mythos.

1st appearance of Hunter Rose as Grendel, Primer #2 has the cover date of January, 1983. Over-looked and under-valued.

2nd appearance of Grendel
Origin of Grendel
1st issue to headlining comic series

Once again, if you're into rare comic books with significance, Grendel #1 is another one to snag. These are not easy finds in the secondary market.

Last CGC 9.8 sold on eBay for only $675 bucks and in the month of May of this year, 2016. Sigh, under-valued for a comic that has an estimated print run of around 2,000 copies.

However, NYX #3 and Batman: The Dark Knight Returns #1 at CGC 9.8s are more valuable? There's only been two eBay sales for Grendel #1 CGC 9.8s from 2013 to 2016.

No, it doesn't have to do with not that many people wanting the comic. It has to do with that's how many copies have surfaced on eBay during that period. You can find NYX #3 and Batman: The Dark Knight Returns #1 pretty much everywhere.

Once again, not saying that NYX #3 or Batman: The Dark Knight Returns #1 shouldn't be that valuable. Just saying that Grendel #1 should be more valuable. Actually, a lot more valuable.

So, the 2nd appearance of Grendel in comics and holds the origin of Hunter Rose as Grendel. This issue also kick starts the 3 issue limited series or 1st Grendel comic series.

Grendel isn't a slouch of a character. He does have a decent cult following, so Grendel #1 definitely makes this under-valued list and came out in 1983.

All non-Marvel and DC Comics in Part 11 of this series. The three are mostly under-valued, and Grendel is no sleeper. 2000 AD Prog 224 just might be. It's not exactly well-known, and I think they are still pretty cheap if you can track them down.

No easy task. Grendel as just a key issue comic is still under-valued. It has a lower print run than TMNT #1, but it just doesn't have the hype.

No cartoon show and multiple movies, but the ones featured here are significant and rare key comics from an era that saw the rise of the indie comic boom that has still sustained even to this day. Hell, if Hollyweird gets keen to the character of Grendel, it will be interesting to watch how these early Grendel comics do.

If they do go into orbit, I'd have to say about time. Thanks for reading and best of luck on your hunt, or selling.


  1. Yeah! Indie time! Another one still on my want list is Evil Ernie 1 (Eternity). I know, it' s a dead property, but it gives me fond memories of my first collecting days. Yes, I commit, I fell for the Lady Death hype as well... and the whole bad girl craziness. Concerning Evil Ernie - could you make a research for me how the price development was in the past years? Would appreciate it, pal.

    Max Rebo

  2. Primer #1 can be considered the first appearance of Grendel. He appeared as an advertisement in Primer #1. This can be similar to what Gobbledygook #1 is to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

  3. The reason NYX #3 in CGC 9.8 is nearing $1,000 is because of hype, speculation, and current demand. Primer #2 just isn't hot right now; it is not in demand. Just because something is scarce doesn't make it valuable.

    1. Barry, tell me something I don't already know. It's not about being's about being under-valued. I know hype for NYX #3 is through the roof because of hype, but if one is going to use the term under-valued, there has to be some sort of basis behind it except for "just because I think so".

      No, scarcity doesn't equate valuable...I've been saying this for years already...but just because Primer 2 isn't hot right now, doesn't mean that comic isn't under-valued or over-looked.

    2. Your basis for Primer 2 being undervalued is weak. You're saying it is undervalued because it has a low print run and is scarce in high grade. Those points are true, but if the demand for it is small then the current value is spot on. The character has a smallish fanbase. Sometimes I wonder if the comic being named Grendel hasn't confused some people over the years, perhaps even held it back from a larger audience. Some see the title and think it's a comic about the villain from Beowulf. Who knows.

      But I'm willing to bet that if The Crow hadn't had the success of the 1994 film, those low print run comics wouldn't be worth much. And without the 80s/90s TMNT cartoon and the 90s films TMNT 1 wouldn't be as hot.

      I do agree that if a Grendel film is made, and it's a good film, then the comic will have more success, but I honestly don't feel that even then it will achieve the heights of TMNT 1. But it might achieve the success of Caliber Presents 1 and The Crow 1.

      Until then Primer 2 is right where it should be vaule wise.

    3. Then you're case is there's no such thing as under-valued or over-looked when it comes to comics on any kind of basis. Saying NYX #3 is under-valued or a sleeper in 2013 is debatable but incorrect, even though whoever did say that then ended up being correct today.

      I've stated in earlier posts of this series that the term "under-valued" is arguable at best. It's always a debatable subject. According to you, every single comic I've named in this series as "under-valued" is weak and they should be exactly where they are value wise.

      So, honestly, why do you bother even reading the series? What would be the point?

      "Uncer-valued" is just another way of saying something is "over-looked" currently. It may not be in the near future or may continue to. Comparing it to something else does not mean that something else shouldn't be valuable, which I've stated in the article. It's just something to compare it to, and who says you cannot compare the scarcity between two key issues?

      Maybe the success of the Crow film attributed to why the comics are more sought out, as well as the media success of TMNT which is another point I make in the article, but does this market have to be 99.9% geared on movie and TV hype? If so, that won't last forever and demand has a higher chance of fading quicker for some of these comics that aren't exactly "scarce". Am I saying this will happen exactly? No, I'm just questioning it.

      The 80s and 90s in comics were historically important because it gave rise to more indie comics that took a much darker approach than Marvel and DC. Of course, most of them will have a smaller fan base if you stack them up to Marvel and DC characters, but as TMNT has proven, it just takes the characters being over-exposed media-wise.

      How about you name me some "under-valued" comics and give reasons to why they "should" be under-valued, so I can find that one in your list to address and tear down?

    4. Since I requested this series feel I should put in my two cents. TCM was apprehensive about it when he emailed me back and didn't care for the word undervalued. I brought up that there were quite a few comics and characters that I didn't even know until I read them on this site. Speaking of X-23, didn't even know of the character until it was mentioned here a few years ago. I took a chance and got two high grade copys of NYX3 few months later at my lcs. It was still fresh in my mind after reading about it here. Point is that some out there may not know a character or comic even exists until they are aware of it. Isn't part of comic speculating or investing about finding comics that have potential growth or might be undervalued for whatever reasons? I think so. Thanks for changing your mind and doing this series. I see now why you were apprehensive at first. Thanks for the NYX3 suggestion to! Made me a huge profit! One came back a 9.8 and the other a 9.6 and recently sold both!
      - Dan

    5. Hi again, Dan, is this you're 1st comment? Long way from the in-box. Actually, a few people requested this series. You're email and the points you had was a factor as to why I eventually caved in.

      I'm still a little apprehensive about this series. I thought there would be more negative comments. So, thanks for changing my mind. Like I emailed you when you first got those books, congrats, man!

    6. Yah, prefer email. This discussion is going to be agree to disagree. Keep up the great work

  4. Hey Barry & Mayhem,

    maybe we can all agree on Green Lantern 141 (first Omega Men). Wasn' t there rumor about an Omega Men movie? Plus with the anouncement of a Lobo screen debut , the possible connection is there...


    1. Might be a good one, Ace. Not sure about the rumor though.

  5. Man love the bitching back and forth. Fun to read. JW

  6. I'm not tearing down your article. I don't agree with all the points, but there's no need to get contentious just because someone disagrees with you. Caliber Presents 1 and especially TMNT 1 have both transcended movie hype by becoming part of the fabric of American pop culture. Primer 2 has not done that. Therefore I feel the current selling price of said comic is not undervalued.

    Taking your written word as a speculative article is more digestible, but I don't see any reason to speculate that Primer 2 is going to start selling for more than it is right now. You as well as I both know it had a small print run, but if buyers are not paying bigger bucks for. 9.8 what do you think they should be paying for it? $2000? $3000?

    1. Contention breeds contention. After all, someone's gotta start a debate in order for there to be a debate. Actually, I thought you wanted to start a conversation with an opposing viewpoint.

      I don't mind people disagreeing. I've stated that under-valued and over-valued terms are subjective in earlier posts...I just don't feel like saying it in every article for every new person who stumbles upon this site.

      It gets tiring to do so. Grendel has been around for a while now and has garnered more than a "smallish fan base". They are still publishing Grendel stories...just not en mass. They haven't completely axed the character. It's not a fly-by-night trend.

      No, the character has not transcended out of comic fandom like TMNT or the Crow (actually Caliber Presents #1 was featured in this series not long ago), but speculation is seeing something as having potential or potential growth, often called under-valued as a general term with speculators.

      9.8s don't hit the market often for Primer #2 and the next one sold may near the Crow #1 value. For a comic that had zero movie, media, or TV hype, it's done decent as an indie already so there is more than a "smallish fan base". Like I said, a decent-sized fan base.

      You may not see it as under-valued, sure. Other people may not either, sure.

      I'm sure there were quite a few people who didn't think Preacher #1 was under-valued 4 years ago either, as well as NYX #3 3 years ago. I'm pretty sure a lot of people scratched their heads and said, "Why would I get that CGC 9.8 at $200 when I first mentioned it? Those comics should be cheaper."

      Also, Dan hit it on the nail. Just because you or I know of the character and that it has a very small print run, doesn't mean everyone else knows.

      For a long time, Caliber Presents #1 wasn't on the radar for most. The Crow #1 was actually more valuable not even a year ago. There are younger speculators who didn't grow up when Grendel and indie characters were all the rage back in the 80s and 90s. They don't even know of the character.

      Also, just because a character hasn't hit Hollyweird's radar yet, doesn't mean that it won't nor should be thought as something with zero growth potential. Getting in on a comic cheaper that has potential growth is the name of the game for those who have read this site a long time.

      I actually didn't want to do it at first, but then Dan pretty much told me I've already been doing it by suggesting investment comics already. He did have a point, so I buckled.

      According to you, I shouldn't bother mentioning it as something with potential to be more valuable than it currently is, just like I shouldn't have said NYX #3, ASM #300, New Mutants #98, Marvel Premiere #15, Tales to Astonish #45, Tales to Astonish #27, Hero for Hire #1, Uncanny X-Men #112 & #113, Hulk #181, Werewolf By Night #32 all had potential to grow when I first mentioned them a while back.

      What's the difference between saying under-valued and potential growth? Potential growth pretty much means a comic is under-valued. With your frame of mind, there would be little need for this site whatsoever. I could just talk about comics after they blow up ridiculously and say all the comics now are not under-valued and are valued exactly as should be currently. That's not really how investing or speculating works though.

    2. Perhaps we are arguing over semantics, but in my opinion (maybe it is just in my mind) the word "undervalued" means that a comic is selling for less than what it is currently worth. I also think being called a "speculator" has become a dirty word in the hobby because those people ONLY care about buying cheap and making a quick flip for money instead of the love of the comic itself.

      I do think this site is interesting or I would not visit it. But I have found some mistakes like when you said that X-Men 109 is the first time Wolverine is called Weapon X when it was actually Incredible Hulk 180. It's ok though. We all make errors in life.

      Looking at your final paragraph of your most recent reply, I see you used the word "speculating." I think that is a more appropriate word for this article instead of undervalued. There's a good chance that Primer 2 has room to grow, but without a television series or major motion picture in the works to bring Grendel into mainstream pop culture, I believe the current going price will stay pretty much stay the same.

    3. title of this series fine to me. i didn't get confused an this guy sounds like a newbie here. speculating is part of investing. finding whats undervalued is a big part. don't listen to this guy mayhem.

    4. Ha! I've been collecting comics since 1986, so I'm not a "newbie." It appears our discussion was more than you could comprehend. It'll be ok though. Maybe you will understand one day.

    5. Just because a comic or key doesn't have a movie or television show doesn't mean it can't be undervalued. Look at Daredevil #1. Just because DD #1 finally got recognized with Netflix doesn't mean his 1st app wasn't undervalued prior. Compared to other 1st app for a popular Marvel character, DD #1 was undervalued way before Netflix. All I've got to say on this.

    6. Stirring the pot is good every now and then, but, man, does it get boring and heat up quickly. Barry doesn't agree with me and I don't agree with him. What's the big deal?

      As I've said for a long time on this site, it's take it or leave it. My word isn't law nor is anyone else. If you want to get a comic after it's blown up, to each their own. If you want to get a key issue before it blows up more, up to you.

      Moreover, this site isn't just about buy, buy, buy! You can use it to determine whether to sell as well. Any character that's popular or third-tier can blow up in this market.

      I don't like to say never. Some do. Some think I'm right, some don't. At the end of the day, it only matters on what you missed or what you gained concerning comic investing or speculation.

    7. Well then, Anonymous, you should know that comics are similar to the stock market. Prior to the Netflix series, Daredevil wasn't a major focus as much among comics fans even those who only buy comics to turn a profit. Additionally there are those who just think it would be "cool" to own DD's first appearance and have enough cash to spend on it, thus driving up the price (not necessarily value because DD 1 is already valuable). The Netflix re-sparked an interest in the character causing his first appearance to temporarily increase in price, though I think it'll settle back down after the hype has waned. When a fictional character becomes entwined in mainstream pop culture, it helps to maintain value (price) of said character's key issue appearances. Daredevil is indeed part of American pop culture, but he's no TMNT.

  7. "Last CGC 9.8 Primer #2 sold for $568.88 on eBay back in 2013."

    And the comic will continue to hover around that price for the foreseeable future unless a movie or television serious is announced. It may steadily increase a little over the next 10-20 years due to inflation, but until Grendel becomes a household name, it won't see any major increase in value. If anyone disagrees I don't have a problem with it. I'd just like to know your reasons for thinking this comic will go up in value without the aid of a live action film/TV series or really slick cartoon.

    1. i meant a newbie to this site. not collecting comics. nobody is saying that movie or tv hype wont push a comic's value up. tcm been saying that for a long time and also said if a movie or show does happen the comic might go into orbit. everything you're saying tcm has written about already. that's why i assumed you're new here.

      you keep bringing up major increase in value, but $10 undervalued is still undervalued. tcm has already said in his comment that this comic has done decent through the years without any media, movie or tv hype. if a movie or show is made about Grendel, there's a possibility it could have a major increase in value. we're all saying the same thing. the difference is some of us are saying its undervalued now compared to what prices could become if a movie or show were to happen. tcm brought the rarity aspect because some out there are interested in only rare comics. he has written before that demand and rarity play important roles and one shouldn't be disregarded.

      tcm has already wrote a while back that the more a comic character is part of pop culture the better, so your arguing for arguing sake. i don't agree with that view entirely. most mainstream people aren't even comic buyers. comic book fans keep the longevity of a character. not non-comic fans. by the way the 9.8 at comic link has been bid up to $733 with 4 days left. not a major increase but still an increase from $568. your just trolling to prove someone wrong when most of us comprehend what tcm is saying which is its better to have that comic at $568 than $733 or even $733 than $2000 if a movie or show happens. its not 10 or 20 years yet either.

      everything your saying has been covered here long before you came around, so i think most of us are just laughing at your insistence to keep arguing.

    2. That's fine, Anonymous Person. We can can agree to disagree. Not trolling, by the way. At least I'm using my real name and not hiding behind "anonymous."

      I've been visiting this site for a couple of years, and I've enjoyed reading some of the information and articles here. I do believe Mayhem is a knowledgeable person when it comes to this hobby, but I've also read some incorrect information on this site. I hope that I can have friendly discussions in the future even if we might disagree on some things.

    3. TROLL here! Not all comics get major increases in value because of movie hype. Grendel would have a hard time becoming a household name in my opinion. Anyone remember when comics were valuable simply because they were awesome instead of movies determining this? We need to go back to that.


  8. Fight forever. Clap clap, clap clap clap